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Buy the Numbers

Buy the Numbers

By: Mike Payne
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Summary

 A deep dive into the financials of running a Manufacturing business.2024 Economics Management Management & Leadership
Episodes
  • The Real ROI of Automation: CapEx, Capacity & the Cost of Doing Nothing, Ep #46

    The Real ROI of Automation: CapEx, Capacity & the Cost of Doing Nothing, Ep #46
    May 14 2026
    Recorded live from the DN Solutions open house near Chicago, this special crossover episode blends the worlds of Buy the Numbers and Lights Out into one conversation about manufacturing growth, automation, and the real numbers behind machine tool investments. Surrounded by machines making chips all around us, we dive into what actually drives smart capital expenditures in a modern machine shop. Throughout the episode, we unpack the balancing act between financial discipline and strategic growth. From twin-spindle turning centers to automated five-axis workflows, we discuss how manufacturers should think about throughput, spindle utilization, labor constraints, machine consolidation, and long-term capacity planning. More importantly, we explore how shops can avoid the trap of simply buying equipment because it looks exciting instead of because it solves a real operational need. We also pull back the curtain on how Hill Manufacturing evaluates new opportunities and plans for future growth. Mike walks through a real-world example of assessing a major customer opportunity that could dramatically increase revenue, while simultaneously forcing hard decisions around automation, throughput targets, and production capacity. The result becomes a practical conversation about how manufacturers should approach ROI calculations, CapEx strategy, and investing in capability before they absolutely need it. Along the way, we tackle one of the biggest misconceptions around automation: that it's about replacing people. In reality, we believe automation is about freeing skilled employees from repetitive, low-value tasks so they can focus on setups, process improvement, and higher-level problem solving. Whether it's unattended machining, machine monitoring, or smarter workflows, this episode is ultimately about building manufacturing businesses that run more efficiently, scale more intelligently, and create more freedom for the people inside them. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) A special live crossover episode from the DN Solutions open house blends "Buy the Numbers" and "Lights Out"(2:15) Mike and Nick discuss the future "roadshow" concept and why tech centers may be the future of manufacturing events(4:09) Mike explains how he approaches multi-year CapEx planning and evaluating future machine investments(9:10) Why every machine shop should have a formal capital expenditure strategy(11:24) Why we love Verdant Commercial Capital for equipment financing(11:57) How maximizing older equipment and improving workflows can delay unnecessary machine purchases(16:50) How automation, machine monitoring, and tool optimization work together to increase utilization(18:30) Why the numbers matter in manufacturing decisions, even when strategic choices go beyond pure ROI(21:56) The parallels between buying machine tools and acquiring manufacturing businesses(24:43) The rapid pace of innovation in manufacturing software, automation, and shop-floor technology(27:43) The true cost of downtime, DIY fixes, and underestimating the value of people's time(31:10) Why automation is really about freeing skilled employees to do higher-value work(33:30) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips(35:15) Mike walks through evaluating a major new customer opportunity and determining required capacity(40:24) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)(41:04) How ROI calculators and throughput modeling help justify major equipment investments(45:37) Why service support and machine uptime are critical factors in choosing machine tool partners(47:16) How automation improves profitability without forcing shops to lower pricing(49:22) Why profitability is essential for taking care of employees, customers, and the broader community Resources & People Mentioned Why we love Verdant Commercial Capital for equipment financingHennig ROI CalculatorGrow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedInConnect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK
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    53 mins
  • The PEO Playbook: How Small Shops Compete Like Big Employers, Ep #45

    The PEO Playbook: How Small Shops Compete Like Big Employers, Ep #45
    Apr 30 2026
    If you're like most shop owners, HR, payroll, and benefits are necessary evils—important, but far from the reason you got into manufacturing in the first place. Yet those "back-office" functions can quietly drain your time, introduce risk, and even limit your ability to attract and retain great people. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike sits down with Jon from Thrive PEO to unpack one of the most misunderstood tools available to small and mid-sized manufacturers: the Professional Employer Organization (PEO). What starts as a conversation about payroll quickly expands into a broader discussion about risk management, employee benefits, compliance, and how to build a business that can punch above its weight class. They break down common myths—like "we're too small" or "it's just outsourced payroll"—and reveal how PEOs actually create leverage. From accessing Fortune 500-level benefits to removing administrative burdens and reducing liability, this episode reframes HR from a cost center into a strategic advantage. But beyond the numbers, this conversation is really about focus. What happens when you reclaim hours every week? What could you do if you stopped worrying about compliance, payroll taxes, and benefits administration—and started reinvesting that time into growth, people, and profitability? If you've ever felt stretched thin trying to manage everything yourself, this episode might just introduce the "easy button" your business didn't know it needed. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) How PEOs give small businesses access to large-company benefits and pricing(2:52) What a PEO is and how it consolidates HR, payroll, and benefits(6:00) Real-world example of fragmented HR functions vs. a unified PEO solution(8:07) Myth: "We're too small for a PEO" and why size doesn't matter(11:33) Leveraging pooled buying power to offer better, more affordable benefits(14:57) Breaking down the "too expensive" myth with real financial logic(17:14) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)(18:11) The three pillars of HR within a PEO: compliance, support, and technology(19:55) Using PEOs as a resource for handling sensitive employee situations(22:31) Enhancing employee experience through onboarding and HR tech(23:39) Real example: outdated employee policies and the risk of non-compliance(25:39) Constantly evolving employment laws and the challenge of staying compliant(27:11) Integrating HR systems with quality management and compliance requirements(29:38) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips(30:46) Opportunity cost: what business owners could do with time saved(34:04) Hidden costs: liability, lawsuits, and compliance risks(36:20) Expanding into retirement benefits and 401(k) access through PEOs(39:16) Quality of life improvements for owners and leadership teams(41:02) Why you need to have a conversation with Verdant Commercial Capital(41:41) How to evaluate and choose the right PEO provider(44:34) Payroll tax risks and real-world horror stories for small businesses(46:56) Cash flow challenges and how PEOs stabilize payroll-related expenses(49:53) Key criteria: people, processes, and platform when selecting a PEO(53:21) How to connect with Jon to explore Thrive PEO for your business(55:16) Final takeaway: using a PEO to "punch above your weight" in talent and growth Resources & People Mentioned MakingChips Seasons: Small Shop Owners Can Thrive with a PEO, 349Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chipsWhy you need to have a conversation with Verdant Commercial CapitalNAPEO.org Connect with Jon Scoggins Thrive PEOConnect on LinkedIn Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedInConnect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify
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    55 mins
  • Breaking the Ceiling: Systems, Data, and the Truth About Scaling a Machine Shop, Ep #44

    Breaking the Ceiling: Systems, Data, and the Truth About Scaling a Machine Shop, Ep #44
    Apr 16 2026
    Breaking the Ceiling: Systems, Data, and the Truth About Scaling a Machine Shop, Ep #44 Manufacturing will humble you—no matter how good you get. I was talking with someone recently about how this might be the only industry where you can perform at a world-class level and still lose money on scrap. That's just the reality we operate in. So the question becomes: how do you build a business that can actually handle that kind of pressure? In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Scott Shortess—someone I've known and trusted for years—to talk through what it really takes to break through that next level of growth. We've both seen shops get stuck. Flat revenue, constant firefighting, and that feeling that no matter what you do, you're not gaining ground. I've been there myself. For me, one of the biggest shifts came when I realized I couldn't scale without better systems, processes, and visibility. Scott shares a similar journey—moving from a legacy system that no longer fit the business to something that completely transformed how his shop operates. And I've seen that transformation firsthand. It's not just about better data—it's about changing how your entire organization thinks and works. We also get into the reality of what's happening right now with AI, custom-built systems, and the temptation to "just figure it out yourself." I've seen a lot of people go down that road. And while it can work, the bigger question is: is that really the best use of your time as a business owner? At the end of the day, this episode is about clarity. When you have the right systems in place, you stop guessing. You stop reacting. And you start making decisions with confidence. That's what allows you to grow—and just as importantly, actually enjoy the business you've built. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Why manufacturing is one of the hardest industries—and learning to accept failure as part of the game(2:51) Scott's background, our relationship, and why collaboration matters (even among competitors)(7:19) How ProShop is critical to your ability to operate and scale(12:25) The chaos of operating without visibility—and how systems create accountability(16:22) The "4 P's": People, Process, Product, Profit—and why profit can't be ignored(18:12) Data, KPIs, and what actually matters to customers (quality, delivery, price)(21:25) Head to the DN Solutions Manufacturing Without Limits event(22:27) "Opportunity to cash": how to think about the flow of a manufacturing business(27:28) You're never too small to implement an ERP(30:02) Check out the Hennig WorkFlow Automated Pallet Delivery System(30:55) AI, "vibe coding," and the temptation to build your own systems(40:05) Using data to make better decisions—including when to say "no"(41:20) Culture transformation: how systems change behavior across the business(46:25) Why industry best practices beat homegrown systems(49:44) Manufacturing vs. baseball: embracing imperfection in a high-stakes industry(50:11) Real-world example of speed, planning, and execution under pressure(52:49) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)(53:30) The biggest operational shifts: visibility, capacity, and flow(57:48) The ultimate benefit: getting your time back as an owner Resources & People Mentioned ProShop ERPHead to the DN Solutions Manufacturing Without Limits eventCheck out the Hennig WorkFlow Automated Pallet Delivery SystemGrow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) Connect with Scott Shortess Advanced PMCScott Shortess on LinkedIn Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedInConnect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK
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    1 hr and 3 mins
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