Episodes

  • Everyday Rhythms and Sacred Encounters: A Conversation with Kevin Doi

    Everyday Rhythms and Sacred Encounters: A Conversation with Kevin Doi
    Jun 30 2026
    In this episode of Centering: The Asian American Christian Podcast, Daniel and Yulee welcome back Kevin Doi—Assistant Professor of Asian American Church Studies and Director of the Asian American Pastoral Formation Initiative at the AAC—for a conversation about a question that’s been on Daniel’s mind: if we add up all our “spiritual” activities, they might only account for 5% of our lives. So where is God in the other 95%? Kevin pushes back on the sacred-secular divide many of us were discipled into, drawing on Ignatian spirituality and his mentors David Fitch and Wendy Farley to make the case that God isn’t contained in church spaces—the church exists in the world, and the world is where God is already present and active. How do we help people be attentive to the God who is everywhere, all the time? The conversation covers: Why the church is the container for worship, not the container for God’s presence How ordinary moments—feeding a baby, making pour-over coffee, dancing, rock climbing, having coffee with a coworker—can become contemplative practices when we simply notice God in them The danger of spiritual practices becoming the goal instead of the portal—when “did I read my Bible today” replaces the deeper question of whether we’re actually being transformed Reframing Luke 10: the “harvest” Jesus sends his followers into isn’t a metaphor for evangelism quotas, but literal life among literal people—meaning those of us “out in the world” in our jobs and neighborhoods are the lucky ones, not those cloistered in church offices The Prayer of Examen as a practice of gratitude and attentiveness, not a moral scorecard A vulnerable, hard-earned story: a moment Kevin didn’t stop for a woman on the sidewalk who needed help, and what that taught him about how “inconvenience” gets in the way of paying attention to God A reflective, practical conversation for anyone wrestling with how to experience God beyond Sunday mornings and quiet times—in the actual texture of an ordinary day.
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    42 mins
  • Dim Sum, Stories, and the Search for Home: A Conversation with Jenn Suen Chen

    Dim Sum, Stories, and the Search for Home: A Conversation with Jenn Suen Chen
    Jun 23 2026
    In this episode, Daniel and Yulee welcome Jenn Suen Chen—author of Dim Sum and Faith and Yulee's Khora Collective co-founder—for a conversation about story, formation, and what it means to know yourself in God. The episode opens around the dim sum table itself: must-order dishes, the comfort of walking into a restaurant full of people who look like you, and why "dim sum" isn't a cute device for the book but the actual organizing metaphor—many small dishes, no single linear way to grow. From there, the conversation moves into the heart of the book. Jen talks about why the writing process pushed her toward deeper honesty, why spiritual formation isn't meant to be done alone, and how Psalm 139 became a recurring anchor—not as a tidy verse, but as an ongoing invitation to ask, "God, do you know me? Am I okay with who you made me to be?" Jen also opens up about: Living in China for 17 years as a Chinese American missionary, and the disorienting experience of "returning" to a homeland that didn't feel like home Channeling her "inner white woman" and what authenticity actually means—not a personality trait, but a fruit of formation The instinct to curate our own stories (including the story of her own family's immigration) and why we have to let go of the curated version to find the true one Encouraging young adults to know and tell their stories, and why age shouldn't determine who gets to be in the room An expensive, hard-won lesson about leadership, isolation, and the cost of not having mentors who could mirror her story back to her Jen closes with a charge to the Asian American Christian community: we are not meant to do this alone, and we need to be better at showing up for each other. Additional Resources: Khora Collective: https://www.khoracollective.com/ Dim Sum and Faith by Jenn Suen Chen https://www.ivpress.com/dim-sum-and-faith?srsltid=AfmBOoo64aWPyngRHw39Ci6jntFWi69AWTSsOFeiKWzS0Cs0jFmSwZ8N
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    48 mins
  • "John Calvin, Refugee Theologian" A Conversation with Kenneth Woo

    "John Calvin, Refugee Theologian" A Conversation with Kenneth Woo
    Jun 16 2026
    In this episode of Centering the Asian American Christian Podcast, hosts Daniel Lee and Yulee Lee sit down with church historian and theologian Dr. Kenneth “Ken” Woo, author of John Calvin, Refugee Theologian: Introducing a Reformer in Exile. Together, they explore what happens when one of Christianity’s towering Reformation figures is read through the eyes of an outsider, a refugee, and an Asian American. What if John Calvin—often caricatured as a cold, hyper-intellectual champion of predestination—was actually writing from the margins, as a displaced person longing for home? And what might that mean for Asian American Christians who have inherited and love the Reformed tradition, but have often met it in heavily “whitened” or de-contextualized forms? Through stories of family migration, pastoral ministry, and academic work, Ken shares how his own Chinese American refugee heritage reshaped the way he reads Calvin, and how reframing Calvin as a refugee can open space for Asian American believers to see themselves not as perpetual guests in the Reformed tradition, but as genuine heirs and contributors. Resources Mentioned John Calvin, Refugee Theologian: https://bakeracademic.com/products/9781540963055_john-calvin-refugee-theologian Fuller’s Asian American Center - aac.fuller.edu Sign up to receive more updates from the AAC: https://aac.fuller.edu/newsletter/ If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac.
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    58 mins
  • Mixed Race, Mixed Identity, and Belonging: A Conversation with Courtney Turner

    Mixed Race, Mixed Identity, and Belonging: A Conversation with Courtney Turner
    Jun 9 2026
    “The question ‘What are you?’… it’s a question that’s asked as a demand for this person in front of you to make themselves legible to you… ‘You don’t fit my categories; I don’t know what to do with you.’” In this episode of Centering: The Asian American Christian Podcast, hosts Daniel Lee and Yulee Lee talk with Courtney Turner, chair of the Department of Global Studies and Assistant Professor of Intercultural and Global Studies at Southern Nazarene University, and a Research Fellow for Formation and Mixed Race Studies at Fuller’s Asian American Center. Drawing from her own story as a second-generation mixed race, fifth-generation Asian American, Courtney explores the complexity of mixed race identity, the pain of not being “enough” to belong, and how the church can better love and pastor mixed-identity Asian Americans (including mixed race, mixed ethnicity, and adoptees). The conversation also highlights the role of media representation, problematic questions like “What are you?”, and why language and formation spaces are crucial for healing. Resources Mentioned Kip Fulbeck, Part Asian, 100% Hapa – Photo and narrative project featuring mixed-race Asian Americans, including follow-up portraits years later to show how self-descriptions change over time. Bill of Rights for people of mixed heritage: https://www.apa.org/pubs/videos/4310742-rights.pdf Fuller’s Asian American Center - aac.fuller.edu Sign up to receive more updates from the AAC: https://aac.fuller.edu/newsletter/ If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac.
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    43 mins
  • Centering 10x10 - Peace & Forgiveness... For God's Glory

    Centering 10x10 - Peace & Forgiveness... For God's Glory
    Feb 10 2026
    Peace and Forgiveness…For God’s Glory In the final episode of the season, Yulee and Daniel share personal reflections on their healing journeys and emphasize the necessity of having support systems, practicing discernment, and engaging in healthy spiritual leadership that aligns with the gospel of grace. They also touch upon the 'whisper network,' the importance of fruit of the spirit, and practical ways to foster accountability and challenge toxic behaviors in ministry. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 00:47 Personal Reflections and Listener Feedback 05:22 The Importance of Embracing Humanity 06:47 Evaluating Leadership and Power Dynamics 12:22 The Halo Effect and Leadership Pitfalls 20:19 DARVO and Toxic Leadership Responses 28:35 Receiving Feedback as a Leader 29:36 The Importance of Margins and Self-Care 30:10 Participating in Change and Addressing Toxicity 31:50 The Role of Integrity and Responsibility 33:34 Challenges of Speaking Up Against Toxic Leaders 42:46 The Whisper Network: Pros and Cons 48:16 The Importance of Community and Support 51:36 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac
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    57 mins
  • Centering 10x9 - No Sabbath... For God's Glory? (Dr. Alexander Jun)

    Centering 10x9 - No Sabbath... For God's Glory? (Dr. Alexander Jun)
    Feb 3 2026
    No Sabbath…For God’s Glory? This episode of Centering features a conversation with special guest Dr. Alex Jun, research professor of Korean American Ministry and Church Leadership Studies at Fuller Seminary, and director of the Asian American Center’s soon-to-be-launched Korean American Ministry initiative. With hosts Daniel and Yulee, the group delves into the concept of Sabbath and sabbaticals, examining common misunderstandings and the importance of rest for spiritual and community health. They discuss the role of cultural and parental influences on work ethics, the pitfalls of overwork, and how to honor personal limits. Personal anecdotes and practical advice for integrating restful practices into daily life offer listeners a path toward healthier spiritual leadership. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 00:56 Listener Stories and Toxic Church Culture 02:22 Special Guest: Alex Jun on Sabbath and Sabbatical 05:31 Misunderstandings of Sabbath 15:09 Cultural Perspectives on Work and Rest 18:26 Immigrant Experience and Work Ethic 24:38 Leadership and Rest in Ministry 27:33 The Struggle of Self-Worth and Leadership 28:14 The Reality of Sabbaticals and Leadership 29:15 Reforming Leadership Through Sabbath 30:40 The Messianic Complex in Leadership 32:52 The Challenge of Rest for Leaders of Color 35:19 Gender Dynamics in Leadership and Rest 36:41 The Model Minority Myth and Faith 44:11 Personal Practices for Sabbath and Rest 50:06 Concluding Thoughts on Sabbath and Humanity Critical Race Theory Centering season https://on.soundcloud.com/lwSbbDg462wyBQzqZD Serge - The Gospel-Centered Life https://serge.org/the-gospel-centered-life/ Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother by Amy Chua https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/battle-hymn-of-the-tiger-mother-amy-chua/1100154952 Khora Collective https://www.khoracollective.com/
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    53 mins
  • Centering 10x8 - Using People... For God's Glory? (Dr. Kevin Doi)

    Centering 10x8 - Using People... For God's Glory? (Dr. Kevin Doi)
    Jan 27 2026
    Using People…For God’s Glory? In this episode of the Centering, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee are joined by special guest Dr. Kevin Doi, Director of Pastoral Formation at the AAC and Affiliate Assistant Professor of Asian American Church Studies at Fuller Seminary. The conversation delves into the temptation to use people for ministry growth, the importance of honoring individual callings, and creating a church environment focused on relational health rather than numerical growth. The episode highlights practical strategies for both recognizing and countering toxic ministry practices in church leadership. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 00:47 Understanding Toxic Ministry for God's Glory 02:29 Guest Introduction: Dr. Kevin Doi 04:23 The Familiarity of Oppression in Ministry 06:39 The Challenge of Healthy Boundaries 09:19 Rethinking Church Growth and Leadership 15:45 The Importance of Relational Ministry 25:11 The Role of Ministry Beyond Church Walls 25:57 Challenges of Church Leadership 27:12 Personal Experiences in Church Dynamics 29:29 The Pressure of Metrics in Ministry 32:20 Rethinking Church Leadership and Community 40:30 Practical Steps for Healthy Ministry 47:29 Concluding Thoughts and Next Episode Preview Asian American Pastoral Formation Initiative https://aac.fuller.edu/initiatives/pastoral-formation-initiative/ Leadership and the New Science by Margaret Wheatley https://margaretwheatley.com/books/leadership-and-the-new-science/ Fall 2026 Asian American Ministry Doctor of Ministry cohort, mentored by Dr. Kevin Doi and Dr. Daniel Lee https://fuller.edu/dmin/fall-2026-asian-american-ministry-cohort/ If you appreciate the work we do at the Asian American Center at Fuller Seminary, please consider supporting us! Your monetary support sustains our vital work and expands Asian American research, leadership development, and pastoral formation for the Church in the year ahead. Donate here: fuller.edu/giveaac
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    48 mins
  • Centering 10x7 - Fetishized Suffering... For God's Glory? (Dr. Jessica ChenFeng)

    Centering 10x7 - Fetishized Suffering... For God's Glory? (Dr. Jessica ChenFeng)
    Jan 20 2026
    Fetishized Suffering…For God’s Glory? In this episode of Centering, hosts Yulee Lee and Daniel Lee, are joined by guest Dr. Jessica ChenFeng, Associate Professor of Marriage and Family Therapy and Director of the Asian American Wellbeing Collaboratory at Fuller Seminary’s Asian American Center. Together they dive into the problematic glorification of suffering, especially within Asian American Christian contexts, examining how theological and cultural influences lead to detrimental endurance practices. These cultural influences are exacerbated within a systemic evangelical framework that rewards exhaustion, silence, and compliance. The conversation touches on the distorted understanding of suffering, its impact on organizational health, and practical steps toward healing. 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Ministry 01:11 Exploring Suffering in Ministry 02:51 Guest Introduction: Dr. Jessica ChenFeng 04:19 Cultural and Theological Roots of Suffering 11:53 Endurance and Toxic Endurance Culture 21:34 Organizational Costs of Fetishized Suffering 23:05 The Impact of Burnout on Creativity 23:33 Generational Fracture in Organizations 24:35 Theological Perspectives on Suffering 26:25 Therapeutic Approaches to Addressing Toxic Systems 32:58 The Role of Leadership in Healthy Systems 36:27 Personal Stories and Practical Steps for Healing 42:09 The Complexity of Discernment and Wisdom 43:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Redemptive Suffering: Christ’s Alone https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/scottish-journal-of-theology/article/abs/redemptive-suffering-christs-alone/C946F1F74F4DD229388BF58C42A6F9CE The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer https://www.fortresspress.com/store/productgroup/467/Discipleship The Integrative Mindset by Brad D. Strawn and Earl D. Bland https://www.ivpress.com/the-integrative-mindset?srsltid=AfmBOooDDJV3-4K75irArSANAu9XWbChTkJPR1SAcP_Tw4-UWT5TvL4g Executive coach, Tracey Gee https://www.instagram.com/traceygee.me/?hl=en
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    44 mins