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Frank and Stan Chats

Frank and Stan Chats

By: Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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 Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.

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© 2023 Frank and Stan Chats
Episodes
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 253

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 253
    Mar 26 2026

    Our guests this week are Alan Braven and Anthony Benedict. Anthony is CEO of Ambition Community Trust and Executive Head Teacher of Tameside Pupil Referral Service, with 27 years of experience in education.

    Alan is a recently retired Executive Headteacher of Endeavour Federation, which provides specialist SEMH (Social, Emotional, and Mental Health) provision in Manchester. They are co-authors of the book 'Educating Everyone: An Introduction to Relational Inclusion in Schools'


    This week's chat about education and leadership includes the following issues:


    1. Should Martin's Law, when introduced in 2027, be a shared responsibility between the Headteacher/CEO and the Governing Body /Trust Board?

    2. An FOI to the DfE reveals what they view a successful school to be. It's a disconcerting and deeply troubling picture.

    3. The White Paper may be a signal of a step forward, but the Inclusion Hubs appear to be poorly thought through.

    4. Can we have a commitment to inclusion when we still expect parents/carers to buy school uniform that is so expensive?


    An engaging, lively and respectful chat between colleagues feeling comfortable with each other.


    Enjoy.

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    40 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.24

    Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.24
    Mar 16 2026

    In May 2025, Frank met Ellen Mukwewa at a conference, and they followed this up with a virtual chat or two. During one the chats Ellen explained that she and her good friend Michelle Baker had created a new organisation bringing together those involved in the non-association independent school sector. As this was an issue the Frank and Stan Chat had not covered on a regular basis it seemed a good opportunity to set up a SPOTLIGHT edition to better understand the sector.


    This SPOTLIGHT delves into a sector that is poorly understood by many but is a crucial element in supporting many children and young people with a diverse range of needs. What follows is a fascinating discussion.


    Enjoy, and we hope learn more about their newly formed alliance, their upcoming conference and their ambition for the future.

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    35 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 252

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 252
    Mar 12 2026

    It is always a pleasure to have a previous guest return to our chat so that we can develop further some key points from the initial chat. Cathal Lynch joined us in March 2025 and received some of the highest viewing and listening figures in recent times. He's an engaging and deeply committed colleague who has focused on wellbeing in schools in recent years. The Wellbeing Quality Mark is well worth considering www.wbqm.co.uk


    This chat considers the financial effectiveness of some high-profile trusts that have encountered financial challenges in recent weeks. Stan and Cathal let rip with Frank acting more like a BBC journalist. We should add that many trusts are well-led and financially secure, but there are still some lessons to learn from recent issues and problems. Frank closes the chat with reference to a recently published research paper into 'stuck' schools, a phrase he personally dislikes. TURNING AROUND ‘STUCK’ SCHOOLS IN ENGLAND: EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP IN EXTREMELY CHALLENGING CIRCUMSTANCES by Bernadette Munoz and Melanie Ehren challenges the idea that support from afar is unlikely to be effective. A message perhaps for the RISE programme.


    Enjoy.

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    34 mins
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