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PCC Local Time

PCC Local Time

By: Nancy Joan Hess
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About this listen

 No other level of government impacts us as much in our daily lives as local government. For the last 40 years I have been talking to managers as an organization consultant and am as fascinated by their work today as when I began. The professional municipal manager is entrusted with a ship that often runs over rough waters even as it delivers vital services to communities. This show is about the ideas and innovation that will drive the future of the profession of municipal management. If you are interested in learning more about the Pioneering Change Community, sign up for the Friday newsletter and get access to more in-depth episode information. Check for a link in the show notes. [Intro and exit music by Joseph Hess. Cover art by Nancy Hess]Copyright 2026 Nancy Joan Hess Economics Management Management & Leadership Political Science Politics & Government Social Sciences
Episodes
  • APMM Series: Who Really Shapes the Future of a Place? with Erin Trone and Keri (MIller) Kenepp

    APMM Series: Who Really Shapes the Future of a Place? with Erin Trone and Keri (MIller) Kenepp
    Mar 31 2026

    Economic development isn’t just about buildings and business, sidewalks and parking, blighted malls and dying downtowns, housing shortages and shrinking workforces, casino controversies and data center ordinances. It’s actually about facilitating conversations with the people invested in the outcomes.

    Keri (Miller) Kenepp, Director of Community and Economic Development for College Township, Pennsylvania, and Erin (Genest) Trone, Project Manager for BusinessPA at the Pennsylvania Department of Community & Economic Development, walk us through a maze of issues facing local governments today and grant us invaluable insights into how we can think about a future together.

    This episode is made possible by a partnership with APMM, the Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management.

    Be sure to subscribe to MuniSquare to get full content that includes all episodes of PCC Local Time and much, much more.

    Chapters

    00:00 – Who Shapes the Future of a Place? (Episode Setup)

    02:00 – Keri’s Non-Traditional Path into Economic Development

    05:00 – The Expansive Nature of Local Government Roles

    07:00 – “Creating the Conditions” for Development

    08:30 – The Long Game vs. Election Cycles

    10:30 – What Elected Officials Want (and Need to Say in Public)

    12:30 – Casinos: Public Resistance vs. Legal Reality

    15:00 – Data Centers: Misunderstanding and Zoning Constraints

    17:00 – “We Have to Allow for All Uses” (Policy Reality)

    20:00 – The Power of Community Resistance (Nestlé Case)

    22:00 – The Blighted Mall and Risk-Taking in Development

    23:00 – Understanding the Private Sector (Erin’s State Role)

    25:00 – Matchmaking: Communities and Companies

    29:00 – The Facilitator Role Defined

    31:00 – Advising Elected Officials (Pros, Cons, and Decisions)

    33:00 – Tension: Standards vs. Development (Affordable Housing)

    36:00 – Sidewalks as a Case Study in Equity and Safety

    38:00 – Developer Perspective: Why Projects Don’t Pencil Out

    40:00 – Blighted Properties and “Highest and Best Use”

    43:00 – Redeveloping the Mall (Zoning Shifts and Density)

    45:30 – Parking: Outdated Assumptions and New Thinking

    49:00 – Changing Mindsets About Walkability

    50:30 – What Keri Had to Unlearn About Economic Development

    53:00 – Erin on Labor Shortages, AI, and Shifting Metrics
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    59 mins
  • APMM Series: What Happens When a Community Wants to Change its Local Government?

    APMM Series: What Happens When a Community Wants to Change its Local Government?
    Mar 25 2026
    Structural change in local government is rare. Therefore, we don’t often get the opportunity to learn how it works.My three guests today, Jerry Andree, Toby Cordek, and Michael Foreman were invited to work with a group of engaged citizens in Millcreek Township, Erie County to shepard a community making its third attempt in fifteen years to restructure their local government.Millcreek is one of the largest second-class townships in Pennsylvania with nearly 55,000 residents, a sophisticated range of services, and all the complexity that comes with governing a community that size. Yet for decades, it has been run by three elected supervisors who, at their first meeting after each election, appoint themselves as the township’s full-time municipal administrators. This does not provide for a separation of powers between the people who set policy and the people who carry it out and creates a vacuum in the continuity of services.This episode is in many respects a rare master class in how to form a study commission and carry a recommendation through to the voters. But more importantly, it’s a frank, insider conversation about the dynamics behind the scenes, including the interviews, the resistance, the attacks, and what it takes to stay focused and transparent when the process gets hard.This podcast episode has been created in partnership with APMM, the association for professional municipal managers to enhance learning, leadership development and networking.Jerry Andree spent three decades as Township Manager of Cranberry Township in Butler County Pennsylvania and has been a steady presence in local government leadership across Pennsylvania. Even in retirement, he continues to teach, advise, and support communities working through complex challenges.Toby Cordek served more than 35 years as Town Manager of McCandless in Allegheny County and has worked across nearly every aspect of local government. Today, he continues to mentor leaders and support municipalities through consulting and executive search work.Michael Foreman brings over 30 years of experience with the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development, where he advised municipalities on policy, finance, and operations. He now continues that work as a consultant supporting local governments across the region.Be sure to follow PCC Local Time on your favorite player and subscribe to MuniSquare.Substack.com for more in-depth content on local government.🎧 Episode Timestamps00:00 – Opening: Why this story mattersNancy frames the rarity of structural change in local government and introduces Millcreek as a “third attempt” story with real stakes.01:30 – Guest introductionsJerry Andree, Toby Cordek, and Michael Foreman are introduced with their backgrounds and roles.03:00 – What makes Millcreek differentThree-member board of supervisors acting as full-time administrators—an unusual structure for a township of this size.05:30 – The core problem emergesLack of professional management; solicitor acting as de facto manager; growing complexity of the township.07:45 – Why residents pushed for changeBlended roles (legislative, executive, administrative) and growing disconnect between governance and community expectations.09:00 – Public access and transparency issuesMeeting times and structure raise questions about accessibility and responsiveness to residents.10:30 – Clarifying the real issueNot about removing elected officials—but clarifying roles and introducing professional management.12:00 – How a study commission worksMichael walks through the legal process: ballot question, election, structure, and responsibilities.15:00 – Inside the research processInterviews with department heads, supervisors, and comparisons with other townships.17:00 – Why council-manager emerged as the best fitSeparation of powers, stability, and professional administration.19:00 – What the interviews revealedLack of continuity, shifting oversight, and absence of administrative expertise.21:00 – A “vacuum of continuity”Toby reflects on what was felt inside the organization—competence present, but no administrative anchor.22:30 – Resistance from leadershipSupervisors not supportive; difficult environment for employees and interviews.23:30 – The decision point: vote for changeStudy commission evaluates options and moves toward a council-manager model.27:00 – Voter approval and timeline to 2028Final report, public hearing, and decisive vote; transition period begins.28:00 – The “secret sauce” beginsShift from structure to human dynamics—how the commission actually worked together.29:00 – Building trust and momentumEarly meetings, “symbiosis,” and a nurturing leadership approach.31:00 – Organizing the commission like a governing bodyCommittees form; members begin practicing how a council operates.32:30 – Facing attacks and staying groundedPublic criticism, accusations, and the discipline to “keep the high ...
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    56 mins
  • Finding Your Place: Why Boroughs Demand Everything. A conversation with Maggie Dobbs

    Finding Your Place: Why Boroughs Demand Everything. A conversation with Maggie Dobbs
    Feb 24 2026

    Maggie Dobbs is a trained city planner (Rutgers) who spent a decade writing comprehensive plans across Montgomery County before stepping into her current role as Borough Manager of Narberth, Pennsylvania, a half-square-mile community tucked inside Lower Merion Township just outside of Philadelphia. She arrived after a period of leadership turnover. What she found was not a small job. It was a dense one.

    Host Brandon Ford and co-host Nancy Hess have a wide ranging conversation with Maggie that moves through the real experience of borough management: the math of running a full municipal government — police, public works, library, eleven miles of road — with fifteen people and a fraction of a township’s budget; the intimacy that makes boroughs special and the same intimacy that makes criticism land close to the heart; and the reality that wearing every hat in the building demands more knowledge, not less, than specializing in a larger organization.

    Maggie is candid about walking into a community that had cycled through five managers in four years, what it took to steady that ship, and why her focus is on building standard operating procedures so the day-to-day can run itself. Along the way, the crew explores Narberth’s housing story — how a historically working-class rail town became the highest median sales price in Montgomery County — and what that shift means for a community once referred to as “Mayberry,” still sorting out who it is.

    MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.


    “My job gets in the way of me doing my job.”— Maggie Dobbs — on the borough manager’s capacity problem“Your hats are wearing hats. It’s a lot.”— Maggie Dobbs — on generalist demands in a small-staff borough
    "If I had a campaign slogan, it would be policy and procedure. My big push has been standard operating procedures. I want to think less about the day-to-day. I want the day-to-day to essentially run itself because we've already figured it out. I don't want to have to answer questions I've answered again." — Maggie Dobbs, on her first-year management strategy

    🔥 Hot Takes

    Five Realities Before You Take the Seat

    1. Your job will crowd out your job. Protect space for strategic work.
    2. SOPs are not paperwork. They are oxygen.
    3. Fill your blind spots early. Pride is expensive.
    4. Proactive information reduces political friction.
    5. Borough leadership is not smaller. It’s closer.

    Timestamps

    0:00 – Introducing Maggie and Narberth

    1:18 – The “donut hole” geography inside Lower Merion

    2:09 – Maggie’s path: NJ Dept. of Agriculture → Rutgers → Planning

    3:30 – Montgomery County Planning Commission & contract planning model

    5:49 – Writing four comprehensive plans; interviewing...
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    56 mins
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