In this interview, Yale political scientist Hélène Landemore, author of Politics Without Politicians, argues that the political systems we take for granted are no longer fit for purpose. As trust in politicians reaches historic lows across Britain, Europe and the United States, Landemore makes the case that elections alone may no longer be enough to produce governments that truly represent ordinary people.

Drawing on examples from Ancient Athens, France, Ireland, the United States, and the UK, she explains why professional politicians often become disconnected from the people they represent—and why citizens chosen by lottery could make better decisions than elected MPs.

The interview also examines the growing gap between political elites and ordinary voters, discussing the rise of career politicians, the influence of wealthy interests, and why so many voters feel ignored by Westminster, Washington and Brussels.

Landemore discusses the Yellow Vest movement in France, the Democratic Party's handling of Kamala Harris after Joe Biden stepped aside, the legitimacy of replacing prime ministers without a general election, and how public frustration has fuelled anti-establishment movements across the Western world.

She also explains how citizens' assemblies have already been used to tackle some of society's most difficult questions, including abortion rights, marriage equality and climate policy, and why she believes these experiments could point towards the future of democracy.

As public confidence in politics continues to decline, this conversation asks a provocative question: do we need fewer politicians—and more ordinary people making political decisions?

Whether you agree or disagree, this is one of the most thought-provoking conversations you'll hear about democracy, political reform and the future of representative government.

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Ava and Andy take to the studio to break down Keir Starmer's first PMQs since resigning, where he defended his government's record since taking office in 2024.

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In this episode, we sit down with renowned economist, author, and founder of the UCL Institute for Innovation & Public Purpose, Professor Mariana Mazzucato, to discuss her new book The Common Good Economy: A New Compass, and why she believes modern capitalism is failing to deliver for ordinary people.

From Palantir's NHS contracts and the future of AI governance to Thames Water, steel, industrial strategy, and the green transition, Mariana argues that governments have lost confidence in shaping markets around public purpose. Instead, she says, we've created an economy that too often socialises risk while privatising reward.

We explore why governments fund many of the world's biggest innovations, from the internet and AI to Tesla and SpaceX, yet rarely share in the rewards when those investments succeed. Mariana explains how public investment helped create some of today's most valuable companies, why she believes Britain's relationship with business has become increasingly "parasitic", and what a more mission-driven economy could look like.

The conversation also covers Labour's economic strategy, Keir Starmer's mission-led government, the future of industrial policy, public-private partnerships, corporate subsidies, regulation, and the role of the state in driving innovation. Mariana challenges the idea that regulation stifles growth, arguing instead that smart regulation has historically been one of the biggest drivers of innovation and prosperity.

Mariana also explains why governments need clearer goals, stronger contracts, and greater accountability when working with private companies. Whether discussing water infrastructure, pharmaceuticals, AI, or clean energy, her central argument is that markets should be organised around outcomes that benefit people and the planet, not simply around short-term profit.

If you're interested in economics, politics, industrial strategy, public ownership, AI, innovation, inequality, growth, Labour politics, public services, climate policy, or the future of capitalism, this conversation is essential listening.

Let us know your thoughts in the comments. Do you agree with Mariana's vision of a common good economy? Can governments and businesses work together more effectively to solve society's biggest challenges?

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