A plant that gives you salt and sugar. A forest “supermarket without the bills.” And a business model that treats farmers, foragers, and fishers like artists with a world stage, not beneficiaries waiting for help. We’re live at the 2026 Grounded Festival in the Otways with Helianti Hilman, founder of Javara, following her mission to help revive Indonesia’s rich food culture and turn food biodiversity into dignified livelihoods.

We talk terroir across an archipelago of landscapes and 1,300 ethnic groups, and what traditional knowledge still holds: slow cooking methods that protect nutrition, hyper-local souring agents and herbs, and delicious ingredients that serve many different functions. Helianti shares vivid examples, from lower-sodium salt in Papua to spice diversity that challenges what “normal” flavors even mean, plus the practical reality of mapping edible ecosystems without damaging them.

Then we get into the reeds in conversation: commercialisation without extraction. Helianti explains why rarity matters more than volume, how Javara develops processing methods that don’t rely on electricity, and how ancient packaging with no plastic, the right narrative, and traceability help indigenous foods compete on quality instead of pity. We also unpack her “artist manager” approach, the Food Artisan School for rural women and youth, cooperative structures for shared infrastructure and financing, and what hotels chasing ESG standards actually need from local supply chains.

We close with questions on sustainability, access, and intellectual property, including the limits of protecting traditional knowledge through trademarks and geographical indication, and why “food is medicine” isn’t a trend but a daily practice embedded in spices, herbs, and low-glycemic palm sugars. Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with a friend, and leave a rating or review so more people can find the work.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 22 April 2026.

Title image by Alan Benson.

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Nicole Masters, live in conversation at Grounded for episode 307.

Liz Carlisle on the living ancient roots of regeneration and its healing ground for episode 309 last week.

Music:

Working the Fields, by Falconer (from Artlist).

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

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You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks for your support!

This is somewhat of a momentous occasion. Liz Carlisle wrote a book called Healing Grounds a few years ago, and a listener brought it to my attention. Just as it was for Liz, it’s been really significant for me. Initially setting out to test regenerative agriculture’s claims on carbon and climate restoration, a bigger picture opened up. And a line from the last page has stayed with me since – ‘this is ancestor work’. Longer term listeners will have heard me recall it a bit on this podcast. It even came up in the recent chat with Nicole Masters at Grounded Festival, such is its synergy with where so many others seem to be finding themselves. And it's our starting point here.

Liz also has a new book out, a compilation with dozens of amazing stories and contributors, co-edited with Aubrey Streit Krug of The Land Institute. It’s called Living Roots: The Promise of Perennial Foods (global release here). While Healing Grounds is also coming out in paperback, with a new foreword.

These are works so full of everything we need and could benefit from more right now. Successes, joys and wisdom, transcending impasses, traumas and would-be divides.

And it’s all somewhat presciently evidenced in the songs Liz wrote and performed as a young touring musician, some of which she kindly shares with us here. That was before that life led her to this one, via a job with farmer and new Senator at the time, Jon Tester.

Her work now also includes being an Associate Professor in the Environmental Studies Program at UC Santa Barbara, where she teaches courses on food and farming to a growing, ready and bold student cohort of thousands.

Here Liz shares her Dust Bowl lineage, the pain of disconnection from farming, and the way each layer of understanding gets deeper than tools or inputs. Regeneration, she argues, is tied to Indigenous stewardship and to food traditions carried through diaspora, and it only works at the scale of the climate crisis if it is equitable for people as well as healthy for soil. That takes us into the hard, practical questions: land ownership, short leases, monocultures, and the policy machinery that keeps farmers locked into systems that are brittle under climate change and biodiversity loss.

We also talk about what’s possible and happening right now, in that context. We talk land trusts, commons-based models, cultural access agreements, and Indigenous land return, plus why perennials matter so much for climate resilience and soil carbon stability. Living Roots brings the concept to life through stories of serviceberries, agroforestry, prairie strips in the Midwest, and the remembering of perennial grains that reframes “innovation” as cultural memory.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 17 June 2026.

Music: Feels Like Home, The Water Is Wide, and Montana, all by Liz Carlisle.

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The RegenNarration is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber, gain access to a great community and some exclusive benefits, and help keep the show going - on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find writing too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks for your support!

What happens when a regenerative farmer decides the land deserves a soundtrack? Cathy Briant joins us alongside Australian music legend Charles Jenkins (of Icecream Hands and other fame) to tell the story behind Country’s Calling, the album launched at the recent Grounded Festival.

Country's Calling stemmed from the trials in Cathy's journey to becoming a regenerative farmer in Victoria’s Gippsland region. During a particularly difficult time in her life, Cathy discovered how deeply music could help. So she found herself asking: what if music could help us listen to the land?

She then teamed up with Charles, alongside fellow Oz music legend Douglas Lee Robertson, and young Indigenous talent Casii Williams, and Country’s Calling was the result. It’s wonderful, and we hear plenty of it in this rollicking ride of emotion, groove and inspiration.

It begins with some of Cathy's family history and farming pressure: rising costs, stressed relationships, sleepless nights and the deep ache of watching land and livelihoods pushed to the edge. Then Cathy shares how she became a lyricist out of nowhere, by letting the land lead. While Charles explores the craft of making it all work together in great songs.

Along the way we talk and listen to some favourite tracks like “Song For A Cow,” “Bare Ground,” “Best Foot Forward” and “My Name Is Soil, Don’t Call Me Dirt,” including why naming something can be the start of respect and relationship.

We also zoom out to the bigger picture: the parallels between farmers and musicians trying to stay viable, the role of community, and why we back Bandcamp as a direct way to support artists. A portion of sales also goes to the Bionutrient Food Association, connecting soil microbial diversity to nutrient density and human health.

If you love thoughtful songwriting, regenerative farming, thriving soil biology and real world hope, subscribe, share this one with a friend, and leave a review so more people find it. Thank you!

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 11 June 2026.

Title image of Cathy by Alan Benson at Grounded Festival 2026, and of Charles off his website.

Accompanying the introduction to this episode is Around the Island – Night Ambience, SFX by Charles Rose (from Artlist).

You can hear that episode with Dan Kittredge and Matthew Evans in ep. 283, A Superhuman Finale to Grounded Festival WA: The Nutrient Density Conundrum.

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Support the show

The RegenNarration is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber, gain access to a great community and some exclusive benefits, and help keep the show going - on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find writing too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks for your support!