This is the first of a two-part conversation with Michael Barbour, one of the most cited researchers in K-12 distance and online learning. Michael is assistant dean for academic innovation and integration at Touro University California, and has spent nearly three decades studying the design, delivery, and support of K-12 distance, online, and blended learning — as well as the policy and governance structures that shape it. His work has brought him before legislatures and policymakers around the world.

In this episode, we put a foundational assumption on the table: that research gives teachers answers. Michael makes a clear and generous case that it doesn't — and that both researchers and classroom teachers share responsibility for that misunderstanding. The distinction he draws between best practices and promising practices isn't semantic. It has real consequences for how leaders build cultures of evidence-informed decision-making, and how teachers are trained to engage with research in the first place.

From there, the conversation moves into some of the most persistent misconceptions in the field — including the idea that distance learning only works for certain types of students, and the often-overlooked role that local support plays in whether any online program succeeds or fails. Michael also challenges the assumption that face-to-face teachers have a natural engagement advantage over their online counterparts, and makes a compelling case for why the distance environment may actually offer more tools for meaningful connection — not fewer.

"The best that we can hope for in all honesty is that research might lead us to a promising practice as a starting point." — Michael Barbour

Topics covered:

• 00:00 — Michael's origin story in K-12 distance learning
• ~04:00 — Why teachers don't engage with research, and why researchers share the blame
• ~10:00 — Best practices vs. promising practices: why the distinction matters
• ~17:00 — Who distance learning actually works for
• ~21:00 — The role of local support in online program design
• ~24:00 — Engagement, belonging, and the myth of the visual cue
• ~30:00 — What "personalized learning" actually looks like in K-12 online contexts

Links and resources:

• DLAC Research Agenda Summary — referenced early in the conversation
• NEPC Newsletter: AI and Personalization in K-12 Online Learning — Michael's recent piece on what personalized learning actually means in practice
• Discover more virtual learning opportunities at CILC.org with hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
• Seth Fleischauer’s Banyan Global Learning combines live virtual field trips with international student collaborations for a unique K12 global learning experience.

After attending DLAC — the Digital Learning Annual Conference — founded by John Watson, one thing is clear: the digital learning community doesn’t retreat under constraints. It builds.

Yet, for some, the question persists:
Was distance learning just a pandemic stopgap? Or is it a durable part of education’s future?

In this episode, John Watson joins us to unpack what the field actually learned from 2020 — and what it didn’t.

One of the most persistent misconceptions, he argues, is the conflation of emergency remote instruction with purpose-built online learning. High-quality digital programs take months or years to design. What happened during the pandemic was an emergency pivot. Those are not interchangeable.

More importantly, this conversation reframes the debate entirely. The future isn’t “online versus in-person.” It’s about expanding options.

What We Explore

• Why online learning should be compared to real on-the-ground alternatives — not idealized versions of school.
• How digital access enables other opportunities (CTE pathways, dual enrollment, flexible schedules), not just online coursework.
• Why hybrid models are emerging as one of the most dynamic growth areas in K–12.
• What personalization actually means — beyond superficial choice menus.
• How AI may reshape agency, instruction, and lifelong learning in unpredictable ways.
• A powerful story of a student who moved from functional dropout status to graduate school through a hybrid pathway.

Throughout the conversation, a consistent theme emerges: Success should not be measured at the system level alone. It has to be measured at the level of individual students and the futures they’re building. Distance learning isn’t valuable because it’s digital. It’s valuable because it creates flexibility where rigidity used to exist.

A Shift in Perspective

Instead of asking whether distance learning has a future, perhaps the better question is:

How do we design systems where digital tools expand human possibility — rather than merely digitize existing constraints?

The schools represented at DLAC are not arguing for replacement models. They are building blended ecosystems that combine online coursework, face-to-face experiences, internships, community partnerships, and emerging technologies in ways that make school more adaptive.

Episode Links

• Learn more about DLAC and their year-round professional learning communities: https://www.deelac.com
• Explore additional episodes and resources: https://www.cilc.org/podcast

About the Hosts

Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning, which designs structured live virtual and global learning experiences that expand student connection across classrooms and continents.

Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell work with CILC to support educators in implementing high-quality digital learning experiences across grade levels.

🎧 Listen in for a grounded conversation about what’s hype, what’s durable, and why distance learning is less about modality — and more about access, design, and student futures.

Virtual learning didn’t start as a tech experiment. It started as a capacity and access solution.

In this conversation, Julie Young traces the early design logic behind Florida Virtual School—what problems it was built to solve in the mid-1990s, and what that origin story still reveals about rigor, relationships, student identity, and how to design learning systems that scale.

You’ll hear why the mission was never “deliver online,” but break the capacity ceiling—especially in places where schools couldn’t staff courses, couldn’t afford expansion, or literally didn’t have rooms to add sections.

Key Ideas and Moments

1) “Virtual delivery was the means, not the mission.”

Julie frames FLVS as a response to overcrowding, teacher shortages, and unequal course access—not a fascination with the internet.

2) The AP “try it with a safety net” design

An early innovation: students could attempt AP coursework while having a built-in path back without public shame, sometimes even with the same teacher—reducing fear of failure and expanding who even tries advanced courses.

3) Why some students “become a different person” online

Julie describes how virtual learning can enable students who were failing or labeled in traditional settings to succeed because:

• they can move faster or slower without an audience,
• teachers can give more individualized attention,
• relationships can be built deliberately,
• bullying/social status pressures are reduced.

4) Relationship-building as an operational system, not a vibe

Early FLVS practice emphasized front-loading relationship-building: extended calls, deep parent conversations, learning student voice through writing, and using that baseline for both instruction and academic integrity (in an era before tools like Turnitin).

5) The parent’s role: support pace, don’t replace the teacher

Julie is explicit that FLVS was designed with teachers responsible for learning, and parents as partners for pace, communication, and context—not as the primary instructor.

6) What online makes possible in K–12 ↔ college pathways

From ASU Prep Digital, Julie shares how online models remove “physical campus” and age-related barriers in dual enrollment—making authentic college coursework possible even for unusually accelerated middle school students.

7) Why she wrote the book now

Julie’s book aims to capture 30 years of policy, research, mistakes, and breakthroughs—the “drama and trauma” of building an industry that many newer educators only encountered through the distorted lens of 2020.

Who This Episode Is For

• Policy and system leaders shaping virtual/hybrid strategy
• District and school leaders designing scalable online programs
• Instructional designers and program operators trying to make relationships reliable at scale
• Anyone tired of pandemic-era assumptions substituting for real history

Links & References

• Julie Young Education - https://www.julieyoungeducation.com/
• Julie's new book Virtual Schools, Actual Learning: Digital Education in America (with Julie Peterson and Kay Johnson)
• Florida Virtual School - https://www.flvs.net/
• Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration - https://www.cilc.org/
• Learn more about Banyan Global Learning: https://www.banyangloballearning.com

How do you know if your virtual program is actually high quality—without reducing it to a checklist?

Dr. Chris Harrington returns to the podcast to share how he’s building the Virtual Learning Accelerator: a human-centered system that helps leaders assess program quality, translate results into priorities, and support teachers over time—without outsourcing professional judgment to AI.

What you’ll get from this episode

• A clear way to think about quality as a system, not a tool or a single role
• How standards-aligned self-assessment becomes useful instead of performative
• Practical guardrails for using AI to speed up improvement without distorting it
• A sustainable model for improving virtual programs year over year

Key moments

• 00:01–02:05 — Why the quality question matters now
• 02:20–07:30 — The Virtual Learning Accelerator: coaching, assessment, and PD as one system
• 09:46–14:45 — How the needs assessment works (14 standards, ~45–60 minutes, instant report)
• 15:45–18:45 — Why the AI launch was delayed: tightening rubrics and recommendations
• 21:03–26:40 — Turning scores into action: why coaching is the translation layer
• 28:30–36:10 — Supporting teachers at scale: micro-courses aligned to online teaching standards
• 37:00–40:10 — Revisiting “Why Distance Learning?”: the shift from access to quality

Links

• Virtual Learning Accelerator: digitallearningworks.org
• EmpowerED Research Institute: empoweredresearch.org
• National Standards for Quality Online Learning: nsqol.org

Host Links

1. Discover more virtual learning opportunities at CILC.org with hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
2. Seth Fleischauer’s Banyan Global Learning combines live virtual field trips with international student collaborations for a unique K12 global learning experience. See https://banyangloballearning.com/global-learning-live/

Distance learning doesn’t fail because of tools—it falters when leadership, policy, and systems don’t align around student success. In this episode, Seth Fleischauer and Allyson Mitchell sit down with Dr. Alexandra Salas, founder and CEO of the Delmarva Digital Learning Association, to unpack what institutional readiness for digital learning actually requires.

Drawing on her experience in higher education leadership, instructional design, and nonprofit systems change, Dr. Salas challenges the idea that digital learning is merely a delivery mode. Instead, she frames it as a connective infrastructure—one that can support access, belonging, wellness, and persistence when designed intentionally.

The conversation moves beyond emergency remote learning to examine how organizations evaluate readiness, why frameworks matter, and what leaders must confront if digital learning is going to meaningfully support students rather than strain them.

What This Episode Explores

• Why digital learning should be evaluated at the systems level—not course by course
• The difference between emergency remote teaching and sustainable digital learning
• How leadership, governance, policy, and student support services shape online success
• Why “online readiness” is about people and structures as much as platforms
• The role of reflection frameworks (Quality Matters, OLC, ISTE, and others) in continuous improvement
• How wellness, trauma-informed practices, and student belonging intersect with distance learning
• What teaching yoga online revealed about presence, connection, and learning in virtual spaces
• Why distance learning is better understood as connected, accessible, future-ready learning

Golden Moment

Dr. Salas shares an early career story from her time as an instructional designer—partnering with faculty to bring courses like anthropology, chemistry, and Arabic online before large-scale platforms made it commonplace. The moment highlights a recurring theme of the episode: trust, curiosity, and collaboration matter more than tools when innovation involves real change.

Why Distance Learning?

In Dr. Salas’s words, distance learning isn’t about distance at all. It’s about access, inclusion, and possibility—especially for learners in rural or underserved communities. When aligned with strong leadership and intentional systems, digital learning becomes a bridge rather than a substitute.

Mentioned Work & Resources

• Delmarva Digital Learning Association — https://delmarvadla.org
• United States Distance Learning Association - https://usdla.org/
• Bestemming Yoga — https://www.bestemmingyoga.com/meet-yt
• Numbers and Sense by Alexandra Salas
• Quality Matters, OLC, Blackboard, and ISTE digital learning frameworks (referenced conceptually)

Host Links

1. Discover more virtual learning opportunities at CILC.org with hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
2. Seth Fleischauer’s Banyan Global Learning combines live virtual field trips with international student collaborations for a unique K12 global learning experience. See https://banyangloballearning.com/global-learning-live/

In this episode of Why Distance Learning, Seth Fleischauer, Allyson Mitchell, and Tami Moehring welcome Hope Windle, Director of SUNY COIL (Collaborative Online International Learning). Together they unpack what COIL actually is, how it works inside real courses, and why it gives all students—not just those who can study abroad—access to meaningful international collaboration. Drawing on years of experience connecting students across countries, languages, and disciplines, Hope explains why meaningful collaboration isn’t about content mastery alone, but about process, perspective, and growth.

Pain Point

Many educators believe that authentic global learning requires travel, study abroad programs, or well-funded international exchanges—opportunities that remain inaccessible to most students. Even when virtual connections exist, they are often superficial, short-lived, or focused on “learning about” others rather than learning with them.

Solution

SUNY COIL offers a project-based, faculty-driven model that embeds international collaboration directly into existing courses. Rather than one-off calls or presentations, students work in mixed international teams on shared problems—ranging from food insecurity and data visualization to journalism, astrophysics, and app design.

Throughout the conversation, Hope shares:

• What distinguishes COIL from “Mystery Skype”–style exchanges
• Why friction, miscommunication, and failure are essential parts of cross-cultural learning
• How COIL builds student maturity, humility, professional communication skills, and global awareness
• Why virtual exchange is a powerful tool for equity, access, and inclusion, especially for students historically excluded from international experiences
• How the UN Sustainable Development Goals provide a flexible, shared framework across disciplines

Action

Educators across K–12 and higher education can begin rethinking global learning by:

• Designing short, team-based international projects within existing courses
• Prioritizing process, collaboration, and reflection over perfect outcomes
• Allowing students to navigate real-world challenges like time zones, communication styles, and cultural differences—with guidance rather than rescue
• Viewing virtual exchange not as a backup to travel, but as a distinct and powerful pedagogy

Why Distance Learning?

For Hope, distance learning creates space for reflection, grace, and intentional response. By combining synchronous connection with asynchronous thinking time, virtual learning allows diverse voices, languages, and cultures to grow together—right now, not someday in the future.

Episode Links

• SUNY COIL: https://coil.suny.edu
• UN Sustainable Development Goals: http://sdgs.un.org/goals

Host Links

1. Discover global virtual learning opportunities and resources at CILC.org with Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
2. Seth Fleischauer’s Banyan Global Learning provides meaningful global learning experiences that prepare students worldwide for success in an interconnected world.

In this episode of Why Distance Learning, Seth turns the spotlight to co-hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell to explore the work they lead at the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration (CILC). For more than 30 years—long before the digital pivot of 2020—CILC has been connecting classrooms and communities to museums, zoos, aquariums, and cultural institutions through live, interactive virtual programs. But as demand grew, so did a problem: users loved the programming but struggled to find the right experience in a catalog of over 2,600 virtual field trips.

To solve this, CILC redesigned everything around two clear pathways: Field Ed for PreK–12 classrooms and Rome From Home for adults and older adults. Each gives users a curated entry point rather than a maze of search results. And instead of forcing teachers or community coordinators to juggle logistics, CILC introduced bundles and fully hosted webinar series—options that reduce prep time to almost zero while improving the learner experience.

What problems CILC kept hearing

• Teachers overwhelmed by too many choices, not enough guidance
• Adults and senior-living communities needing moderated, accessible programs
• Content providers unsure how to adapt or refresh virtual programming
• School budgets going unused because scheduling felt too complex

What the redesigned model delivers

• Field Ed: A clean K–12 catalog aligned to curriculum, standards, and CTE
• Rome From Home: Cultural and wellness programming designed for older adults
• Bundles: Flexible funds teachers can use anytime, without losing budget
• Webinar Series: CILC handles hosting, registration, moderation, and tech
• Consulting: Support for museums and cultural institutions building or rebooting virtual programs

The episode also explores what makes a virtual field trip truly work. Tammy and Allyson break down pacing, interactivity every few minutes, accessible visuals, and the presenter “presence” that makes a screen feel like a shared space. For older adults, the structure shifts—more narrative, slower pacing, and extended Q&A—because live virtual learning often becomes a social anchor, not just a lesson.

Moments from the field bring it home: students from Nicaragua to Minnesota solving a physics challenge together in Field Ed Live, or the older adult who said, “I never thought I’d see the Smithsonian again—and I did, from my chair.” These are the access and opportunity stories that define why distance learning matters.

Why distance learning?

Because it brings the world to people who might never reach it—and brings it back to those who thought they’d lost it.

Episode Links

• CILC: Field Ed, Rome From Home, Consulting – https://CILC.org
• Schedule Banyan’s Bridges of Portland Virtual Field Trip via CILC