Following up on episode 2.3, Michael leads a discussion of villains. What constitiutes villany? What makes compelling baddies? How do bad guys fall short?

Villains discussed or heard in this episode:

Drexl (Gary Oldman) "True Romance"

Erik Killmonger (Michael B. Jordan) "Black Panther" films

Thenardier "Les Misérables" by Victor Hugo

Magneto (Ian McKellen) The X-Men films

The Mayor (Harry Groener) "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

The Sheriff of Nottingham (Alan Rickman) "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves"

Bill (David Carradine) "Kill Bill"

O'Brien (Richard Burton) "1984" by George Orwell

Darth Vader (James Earl Jones) "The Empire Strikes Back" (et al)

Thanos (Josh Brolin) The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Gestalt "The Rook" by Daniel O'Malley

The Carryx "The Captives War" by James S.A. Corey

The Dark Queen "Ninth House" by Leigh Bardugo

Smiley and Karla "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold" by John le Carré

Dr. Hannibal Lechter "Silence of the Lambs" (and nothing else) by Thomas Harris

Also discussed:

"Some Desperate Glory" by Emily Tesh

The crew met over a heaping and very likeable plate of nachos and more to discuss unlikeable characters. They debate the difference between villains, anti-heros, and unlikeables and share some hot takes on who (or what) gets under their skin.

Let us know what you think.

Examples of unlikeable characters discussed in this episode:

Jar Jar Binks, Star Wars Episodes 1-3 and elsewhere

Most everyone in "Normal People" and "Conversations with Friends" by Sally Rooney

Owen in "The Everlasting" by Alix E. Harrow

El in "The Scholomance" series by Naomi Novik

Alex Stern in "Ninth House" by Leigh Bardugo

Detective Josephus Miller in "The Expanse" by James S.A. Corey

Eleanor in "Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine" by Gail Honeyman

Welsey Wyndam-Pryce in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

Theon Greyjoy from "A Song of Fire and Ice" by George RR Martin

Amy Dunne in "Gone Girl" by Gillian Flynn (and Nick Dunne too!)

Every character in "Succession" on HBO

Every protagonist in the short story collection "Homesick for Another World" by Ottessa Moshfegh

Elaine in "A Court of Thorns and Roses" by Sarah J Maas

Antiheros referenced

Walter White in "Breaking Bad"

January Cole in "The Paradox Hotel" by Rob Hart

Carol in "Pluribus" on AppleTV

Joe Goldberg in "You" by Caroline Kepnes and on Netflix

Other references

"Wednesday" on Netflix

"I Who Have Never Known Men" by Jacqueline Harpman

Jackson Lamb in "Slow Horses" by Mick Herron and on AppleTV

"Dungeon Crawler Carl" series by Matt Dinniman

Edward Cullen in the "Twilight" series by Stephanie Meyer

Lori leads our discussion about character develoment. How do we go about it? And what do we look for - or hate - in a character?

References Include:

The Gentleman of Moscow by Amor Towles

The Dresden Files books by Jim Butcher

The Everlasting by Alix E. Harrow

Embassytown by China Miéville

Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir

The Witches Secret by Stacie Murphy

Stacie was enthralled by something we read in the group frecently - a collection of linked literary flash fiction from Max Paradise. She asked Max to join us on Boxing Day 2025 to talk about how we decide on what form to use for a particular project. Whether it's a short story that becomes a novella and then a novel, a short story or a novel that was never going to be anything but, or a magnum opus designed to punish readers that sits in a shoebox, Lori, Michael, and Stacie had a great meal and conversation with Max.

The gang wrapped up Season One with some introspection, predictions, and a little trash talking. From how we fared in our writing goals and what we hope to accomplish next year to a discussion of media we consumed and what constitutes "a lot of reading." All that, plus a call for listener input on what we're doing right and wrong.

Rounding out the three-part series of "Beginnings" (Ep 5) and "The Messy Middle" (Ep 8), the gang tries to land the plane with "Endings." Also, there's a wedding going on.

The gang went back to Carnegie Diner to talk about how they approach revising. From too many beta readers to the need for hearing the same critique multiple times. Lori tells Klein how irritating some of his comments are to her and Stacie catches up with AWG member and poet Catherine Puma to talk about her recent success.

Stacie wanted us to share our origin stories...so we did. From whales, a boy and his dog, and A Deadly Fortune, we explain how and why we started writing. We also talk about where the ideas for our current WIPs came from: a Disney World dinner, playing dress up, and a Bible character who got the short end of the stick. All that, plus Big Ass Cookies, deciding to write, UNC basketball, and more.