Judgemental - a psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar cover art

Judgemental - a psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar

Judgemental - a psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar

By: Greg Smith and Kate Connors
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An analysis of all things psychosocial risk, from psychological studies to legal proceedings and case law. Biological Sciences Economics Management Management & Leadership Philosophy Science Social Sciences
Episodes
  • The Net Effect – why fishing for hazards a hook at a time isn’t the answer…

    The Net Effect – why fishing for hazards a hook at a time isn’t the answer…
    Jun 17 2026
    In this episode of Judgemental, Kate Connors and co-host Greg Smith are joined by Dr Rod Gutierrez—doctor, psychologist, and author of The Net Effect—for part 1 of a rich and provocative 2-part conversation about the future of psychosocial risk management. Rod takes listeners inside his unique professional journey and the thinking behind his book, challenging the dominant “tick-the-box” approach that still underpins much of workplace health and safety. Instead of treating psychosocial risk as a series of isolated hazards, he introduces a powerful alternative: the idea of the net effect—a more human, interconnected way of understanding how risks interact and are experienced through individual differences. Together, the trio explores why traditional engineering-style safety frameworks struggle to address complex human problems, and why compliance alone is not enough. They unpack the gap between regulation and meaningful practice, the unintended consequences of controlling risk in silos, and the growing tension between prevention and real-time support in workplaces. The conversation also ventures into the rising influence of AI and the uncomfortable truth that even though workplaces still haven’t mastered human-to-human care, they are now increasingly focused on human-to-AI interactions. Key discussion points: Why psychosocial risk can’t be managed one hazard at a timeThe “net effect” and what it means for real-world practiceThe gap between regulatory compliance and meaningful safetyAI as both a solution—and a new psychosocial hazardThe hard truth: workplaces still struggle with human-to-human care Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate Connors LinkedIn – Greg Smith LinkedIn – Dr Rod Gutierrez LinkedIn – EML Resources:“The Net Effect – an ecosystems approach to psychosocial risk management.” Elemental Psychology & Coaching website Greg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper Safe EML website EML Psychosocial Resources – Mutual Benefits https://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/ Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar SpotifyAppleAmazon Music Be sure to subscribe, leave us a review, or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness.The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.
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    40 mins
  • Workplace investigations and safe systems of work

    Workplace investigations and safe systems of work
    May 27 2026

    This week in the bar, Kate and Greg are joined by investigations expert Scott McLintock to unpack the complex reality of workplace investigations—and why they’re rarely as simple as “finding the truth.”

    As a follow-on from Episode 2: Workplace investigations and safe systems of work, Kate and Greg explore the human, legal and organisational dynamics that play out throughout an investigation process. From navigating competing perspectives and “multiple truths,” to managing legal risk, psychological harm and unintended consequences, the discussion highlights how investigations can ultimately shape, or destabilise workplace culture.

    The key takeaway?
    Before launching an investigation, ask yourself…..do we actually need one, or do we need to lean in and actively manage the situation?

    A sharp, thoughtful and at times sobering conversation about discretion, fairness and keeping people at the centre when things go wrong.

    Connect with us:

    LinkedIn – Kate Connors

    LinkedIn – Greg Smith

    LinkedIn – Scott McLintock

    LinkedIn – EML

    Resources:

    CurbyMcLintock: https://curbypartners.com.au

    Elemental Psychology & Coaching website

    Greg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper Safe

    EML website

    EML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/

    Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar

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    Be sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message.

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    This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness.

    The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​

    Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.

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    56 mins
  • Workplace Investigations and Safe Systems of Work

    Workplace Investigations and Safe Systems of Work
    Apr 27 2026
    Kate and Greg return to their virtual bar stools for their first legal decision discussion of series 3—this time tackling workplace investigations. Using the recent Department of Education NSW v SafeWork NSW decision as the backdrop, they unpack how timeliness, communication and the allocation of alternate duties during investigations are factors requiring employers design and focus. The context is sobering as the matter was prompted by a prolonged investigation that culminated in a worker’s attempted suicide. Kate and Greg unpack why timeliness, transparency, and procedural fairness are not just administrative issues but deeply human ones. As usual, a key thread throughout the episode is the distinction between process and outcome and whether employers have fit for purpose systems to assess risk, allocate alternative duties, and monitor investigations. Along the way, they question knee jerk formal investigations, and argue for earlier and more “human centred” options, that might actually be helpful not harmful. Heavy topic, sharp insights, a splash of humour—and a clear warning: leave people waiting for too long, and the consequences can be catastrophic. The episode closes with practical takeaways for employers: Re-examine what truly needs a formal investigation.Treat investigation processes as psychosocial hazards in their own right.Monitor timeliness and human impact, not just compliance.Build advisory capability and case management approaches. Never underestimate the potential for catastrophic harm when people are left in prolonged organisational limbo. Connect with us: LinkedIn – Kate ConnorsLinkedIn – Greg SmithLinkedIn – EML Resources: Industrial Relations Commission, New South Wales: DoE v SafeWork NSWIndustrial Relations Commission, New South Wales: Killen v SafeWork NSW and NSW Rural Fire ServiceElemental Psychology & Coaching websiteGreg Smith – Safety Books Proving Safety and Paper SafeEML websiteEML Psychosocial resources – Mutual Benefitshttps://www.eml.com.au/news-community/latest-news/reduce-psychosocial-risks-in-workplaces/ Follow Judgemental: A psychologist and a lawyer walk into a bar SpotifyAppleAmazonYoutube Be sure to subscribe, leave us a review or send us a message. This podcast series is proudly sponsored by EML. As Australia’s largest personal injury claims provider, EML provide services to the workers compensation, life insurance and CTP personal injury markets. For over 110-years, the EML Group has proudly helped people get their lives back after a workplace injury or illness.The Mutual Benefits program reinvests a portion of EML profits into innovative products, tools, initiatives and services that are designed to improve outcomes for employers, injured workers, and the communities we support.​Click here for the free resources available within the Mutual Benefit program to support psychosocial risk management in the workplace.
    Show More Show Less
    51 mins
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