Episode 152 of The Fifth Court features a very special guest: Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia

Interviewed by Mark Tottenham BL at Dalkey Book Festival.

This is not just a tech-founder interview. It is a fascinating conversation about law, trust, neutrality, rules, evidence, platform responsibility, AI hallucinations, volunteer communities, public knowledge and why Wikipedia has survived while much of the internet has become angrier, noisier and less trusted.

Jimmy explains why Wikipedia’s neutral point of view matters, why “assume good faith” is more practical than naïve, how Wikipedia deals with vandalism, why AI can invent very convincing false sources, why WikiNews did not work, and why Wikipedia avoided the advertising model that turned so much of the web into clickbait.

Jimmy's cultural recommendation, a book by the late author Ray Bradbury, 'Something Wicked this Way Comes'.

Before the interview, Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL discuss three recent cases from the Decisis Casebook, sponsored by Charltons Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners: the Supreme Court on “no foal, no fee” and conditional fee arrangements; a drink-driving blood-specimen chain-of-custody case; and a murder conviction quashed because of an unbalanced judicial charge to the jury.

00:00 – Intro: Episode 152

01:47 – Decisis Casebook sponsor: Charltons Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners

02:00 – “No foal, no fee” and conditional fee arrangements

03:29 – Drink-driving conviction and blood-specimen chain of custody

04:34 – Murder conviction quashed over judicial charge to jury

06:03 – Jimmy Wales interview begins

06:43 – Why Wikipedia was hard to compete with

07:58 – Neutral point of view and controversial topics

09:49 – How Wikipedia’s rules developed

11:40 – Volunteer communities and optimism about people

15:12 – Why a wiki works for an encyclopedia, but maybe not for poetry

17:03 – Why Wikipedia is vandal-proof

18:30 – Jimmy Wales: “Queen Elizabeth II, not Henry VIII”

20:07 – Arbitration committees and Wikipedia governance

21:24 – Wikipedia in 150–300 languages

23:31 – What workplaces can learn from volunteers

29:06 – Audrey Tang, Taiwan and digital consensus

32:10 – “Assume good faith”

34:25 – ChatGPT, fake ISBNs and made-up legal cases

37:17 – Law enforcement and good faith

39:03 – Why WikiNews did not really work

44:12 – Constitutional change and institutional deadlock

49:37 – Platforms, publishers and free speech

50:25 – Why Wikipedia did not become an ad machine

53:04 – Jimmy Wales’ book recommendation: Something Wicked This Way Comes

54:33 – Outro

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In Part 2 of our extended interview with retired Supreme Court judge Mr Justice Peter Charleton, Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL continue a remarkable conversation about life at the Bar, life on the Bench, and life after the Supreme Court.

Peter Charleton speaks about the reality of appearing in high-profile criminal cases, the discipline of addressing juries, why a good advocate must be able to hold attention, and why, in court, “your job is basically to stay on the horse”.

He discusses the emotional weight of criminal work, the dangers of lawyers mistaking themselves for victims, the Morris Tribunal, the call to the High Court, the pressure of judgment writing, and the move from sitting alone in the High Court to deciding cases with colleagues in the Supreme Court.

There is also a fascinating discussion on the length of modern judgments, why digital searches are different from physical searches, how Supreme Court judges deal with disagreement, and whether advocacy still matters in an age of written submissions.

And, in a lovely final turn, Peter Charleton reflects on retirement, family, music, film, War and Peace, Clint Eastwood, and why music, in his view, is a higher form of reasoning than law.

Before the interview, Mark and Peter discuss three recent cases from the Decisis.ie casebook, with thanks to the sponsor of the Decisis casebook discussion, Charltons Solicitors and Collaborative Practitioners of George’s Street, Dún Laoghaire, who specialise in family law, civil litigation, property, wills and probate.

LSRA v O’Brien

A solicitor was prohibited from practising in his own right for 10 years following serious misconduct and repeated non-compliance with undertakings. The High Court stressed that its role in reviewing LSRA determinations is not a rubber-stamping exercise.

LSRA v Salabi

An overseas lawyer seeking to practise in Ireland could not rely on Belgian professional indemnity cover. The court held that the foreign cover did not meet the Irish regulatory requirements.

Foreign Births Register citizenship challenge

A challenge to the requirement that foreign-born children be registered on the Foreign Births Register before acquiring Irish citizenship was rejected, with the court finding no particular injustice in the requirement.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Part 2 preview

00:48 Decisis casebook discussion, sponsored by Charltons Solicitors and Collaborative Practitioners

03:49 Peter Charleton interview resumes

04:31 High-profile criminal cases and staying on the horse

05:15 Addressing juries and holding attention

07:13 Worrying about cases and professional regret

08:08 Criminal work, vicarious trauma and perspective

09:03 The Morris Tribunal and Donegal

10:37 The call to the High Court

11:43 Why judging was not easier than being a barrister

13:48 How to write a judgment

15:46 Are modern judgments too long?

18:07 Digital searches and privacy

19:52 Moving from the High Court to the Supreme Court

20:22 Keeping an open mind on appeal

21:30 Overturning colleagues and why it is not personal

23:45 Irish courts, US courts and the politics of judging

26:26 Is great advocacy dead?

28:38 Retirement from the Supreme Court

30:41 Life after the Bench

31:22 Music, law and philosophy

32:47 Film and book recommendations

34:45 Closing thanks

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The Fifth Court marks Episode 150 with Part 1 of a wide-ranging conversation with recently retired Supreme Court judge, Peter Charleton.

To mark Episode 150 of The Fifth Court, Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL are joined by Mr Justice Peter Charleton, recently retired from the Supreme Court.

In Part 1 of this extended interview, he reflects on republicanism and nationalism, growing up near Seán Lemass and Theodore Kingsmill Moore, music, Trinity, the King’s Inns, devilling with Peter Sutherland, early years at the Bar, criminal law, defending accused persons, and the deeper questions of crime, morality and human nature.

It is a thoughtful, personal and sometimes unexpectedly funny conversation with one of Ireland’s best-known jurists.

Before the interview, Mark and Peter discuss three recent cases from the Decisis.ie casebook.

The Decisis.ie case-law section is sponsored by Charlton Solicitors and Collaborative Practitioners of Dún Laoghaire.

Case 1: The High Court quashed a District Court judge’s refusal to convict in speed-limit cases, holding that judges must apply the law rather than substitute their own views on whether limits are fair.

Case 2: In DPP v O’Hara, the Court of Appeal upheld a murder and burglary conviction, rejecting challenges to DNA and search-warrant evidence.

Case 3: In a Hague Convention child-abduction case, the court refused to return a child to New Zealand because of concerns about the mother’s depression and risk of relapse.

This is Part 1 of a two-part interview. Part II will be posted next week.

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Bloomsday Special: The secret political life of James Joyce — and Frank Callanan’s final masterpiece

Was James Joyce really apolitical?

For decades, many scholars claimed Ireland's greatest writer stood apart from politics.

Frank Callanan disagreed.

Before his untimely death, the renowned barrister, historian and Parnell scholar spent 25 years researching what became his final work: James Joyce: A Political Life.

In this special Bloomsday episode of The Fifth Court, Bridget Hourican joins Peter Leonard and Mark Tottenham to discuss Frank's extraordinary final book, his lifelong fascination with Joyce, Parnell, Irish nationalism, exile, censorship and the political forces that shaped modern Ireland.

The conversation also becomes a moving tribute to Frank himself — one of the most beloved and intellectually gifted members of the Law Library.

Among the topics discussed:

• Why Frank spent 25 years researching Joyce
• The political meaning hidden inside Ulysses and Dubliners
• Joyce's obsession with Parnell
• Why Dublin publishers burned copies of Dubliners
• Joyce, censorship and Irish respectability
• Why Joyce left Ireland and never truly returned
• Frank Callanan's remarkable legal and academic career
• The challenge of completing a 900-page masterpiece after his death

For anyone interested in law, literature, Irish history or Bloomsday, this is a fascinating conversation.

Book recommendation:

James Joyce: A Political Life by Frank Callanan

Decisis casebook section sponsored by Charlton Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners.

1. The runaway truck case

Duggan v Logan (Mr Justice Oisín Quinn)

A driver was seriously injured when a truck rolled out of a filling station and into traffic with nobody behind the wheel after the driver failed to apply the handbrake.

Why it matters:

The High Court awarded damages of approximately €128,000 and provides a reminder that leaving a vehicle unsecured can create liability even when the driver is physically absent from the vehicle.

2. Turkish worker wins immigration rights challenge

Ozek v Minister for Justice (Mr Justice Simons)

A Turkish migrant worker successfully challenged the Minister's refusal to properly backdate an immigration permission.

Why it matters:

The Court found that EU-derived worker protections had not been correctly applied, reinforcing the importance of protecting migrant workers' rights under European law.

3. Mother and Baby Institutions Redress Scheme

Kiernan (otherwise John Duncan Morris) v Minister for Children (Mr Justice Owens)

A claimant challenged a decision that certain institutions were not covered by the Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme.

Why it matters:

The Court held that the legislation should be interpreted more broadly and that the applicant was entitled to seek redress under the scheme. The decision may affect how eligibility is assessed in future claims.

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Episode 148, The Fifth Court

Peter Shanley SC on Barristers Direct, legal access and barristers becoming entrepreneurs

Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL are joined by Peter Shanley SC, founder of Barristers Direct.

Peter explains how changes under the Legal Services Regulation Act opened the door to direct access to barristers in non-contentious matters, why Barristers Direct was created, and how the service works for individuals, companies, in-house counsel and solicitors.

He also talks family legal dynasty, rugby, the late Peter Shanley, direct access, AI note-taking, probate, employment law, defamation, and why solicitors may actually benefit from the service.

The Decisis.ie case-law section, sponsored by Charlton Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners of George’s Street, Dún Laoghaire, covers:

A suspended trade union member allowed to contest an Executive Council election

A Hague Convention child-return case involving Ireland and Poland

Citizenship refusals based on historic criminal convictions

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ON this episode of The Fifth Court, Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL are joined by John O’Donnell SC — one of the Bar’s leading advocates… and one of Ireland’s most quietly brilliant writers. This is a conversation that moves from the Four Courts to the writing desk — and back again.

We step into a different courtroom entirely — the imagination.

John O’Donnell SC discusses:

• Winning the Francis McManus Short Story Award
• Writing Mr. Who — a story inspired by a real criminal case
• The discipline of writing daily at 6:30am
• Why short stories thrive in Ireland
• And his upcoming novel Second Skin

This is law, but not as you expect it.

We begin, as always, with the Decisis casebook section, sponsored by Charlton Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners, George’s Street, Dún Laoghaire, covering:

1. Teaching Council v CD

A school principal steals up to €100,000… and is NOT struck off. Why? Gambling addiction, remorse, and the court’s willingness to give a second chance.

2. Pepper Finance Corporation v Ward

A default judgment overturned… after SEVEN years. Solicitor misconduct, delay, and “special circumstances” collide.

3. O’Callaghan v O’Callaghan

A family hotel empire tears itself apart. Misrepresentation vs arbitration — and why the court said: “Off you go… to arbitration.”

00:00 – Intro

02:00 – Decisis Sponsor: Charlton Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners

02:15 – Case 1: Teacher theft & second chances

05:30 – Case 2: Default judgment after 7 years

08:00 – Case 3: Family hotel war & arbitration

10:30 – John O’Donnell SC interview begins

18:00 – From barrister to poet

25:00 – Writing discipline: 6:30am starts

32:00 – Mr. Who: crime, imagination, and narrative

40:00 – Law as inspiration for fiction

50:00 – Poetry reading

57:00 – Fastnet Film Festival & courtroom dramas

01:02:00 – Close

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Your Reputation on Trial — And Why the Rules Are Changing

This is not just another legal interview. This is a story about growing up under armed protection, about a father who became the last Law Lord in the UK, and about a legal system that is about to change in a very big way.

John Kerr — barrister, defamation specialist, and colleague — joins us to talk about:

• What it was like living through the Troubles with security at the front gate
• Why his father became the “Great Dissenter” in the UK Supreme Court
• The truth about defamation cases — and why juries may be scrapped
• And what happens when your reputation becomes your livelihood

Plus:

Three fascinating Decisis cases including dead-person defamation, missing expert witnesses, and multi-million euro stud fees. Decisis is brought to you thanks to Charltons Solicitors and Collaborative Practitioners.

defamation law Ireland, jury trials Ireland, Brian Kerr judge, UK Supreme Court law lords, Irish barristers, Paul Tweed defamation, legal podcast Ireland, Fifth Court podcast, Irish courts cases, Decisis cases Ireland, John Kerr barrister, freedom of expression law

TIMELINE

00:00 Intro + Decisis sponsor mention

02:00 Defamation after death — can you sue?

05:15 Lost expert witness — trial goes ahead anyway

08:30 Coolmore stud fees — big money, no excuses

12:00 John Kerr — defamation specialist

14:00 Growing up in Northern Ireland during the Troubles

17:00 Armed guards, relocation, and real risk

20:00 The career of Lord Kerr — last Law Lord

25:00 The “Great Dissenter” — why minority judgments matter

30:00 From solicitor to barrister — taking the leap

34:00 Defamation reform — are juries finished?

40:00 Big awards, big problems — reality vs headlines

47:00 International defamation and celebrity cases

50:00 Book & film recommendations

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The "referee" of Irish politics: Verona Murphy on power, pressure and running the Dáil

What actually happens when you’re handed the whistle in Irish politics?

On Episode 145 of The Fifth Court, hosts Peter Leonard BL and Mark Tottenham BL travel to Leinster House to sit down with Verona Murphy, Ceann Comhairle — the referee of the Dáil.

This is not a standard political career story.

From leaving home at 14, school at 15…to a period of homelessness… to driving trucks across Europe with ABBA blasting…to running a haulage company…to qualifying in law… to becoming Ceann Comhairle.

Inside this conversation:

• What the Ceann Comhairle actually does (it’s far, far bigger than you think)
• Why the job is effectively 24/7
• How legislation really moves (or doesn’t) inside the Dáil
• The reality of managing conflict, egos and political theatre
• Why many TDs don’t understand the system they operate in
• The truth about independence in Irish politics

Plus:

• Brexit through the eyes of the haulage industry
• Why respect (or lack of it) is crippling key sectors
• And the surprising power behind “standing orders”

Decisis Case Round-Up (with thanks to our sponsor)

This episode includes analysis of three recent decisions, brought to you by Charltons Solicitors & Collaborative Practitioners, Georges Street, Dún Laoghaire — specialists in family law, civil litigation, property, wills and probate.

Cases discussed:

1. Student A v Trinity College Dublin

Can you stay anonymous if accused of academic misconduct?

The High Court says: almost never.

2. Hegarty & Others v Revenue Commissioners

Revenue loses — because “tax avoidance” isn’t enough if there’s a real commercial reason.

3. G v G (Child Abduction Case)

A 22-month-old taken from the US to Ireland — and the court orders the child back.

Subscribe, follow, and share.

Because law — like politics — only makes sense when someone explains it properly.

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