When you look through one, you’ll see things you can’t unsee…

Ever been in a tough situation with your team and immediately started reacting as a leader, only to realize later that you handled it all wrong? In this episode, Chris and Brad walk through a real leadership story that'll hit close to home.

A leader who genuinely values relationships started to panic when team drama surfaced, and they quickly defaulted into "manager mode." Policy manuals came out, conversations felt cold, and people with years of trust built up started feeling like they were just a problem to be managed. The result? Burned relationships, hurt feelings, and a team that might not make it out intact.

The guys dig into why this happens, even to leaders who know better, and what it looks like to make the relational lens your first instinct, not your last resort. The conversation covers the cost of reacting poorly and how to operate, not just with the end goal in mind, but with the end relationship in mind.

IN THIS EPISODE

- Why good leaders will still default to unrelational strategies when things go sideways

- The power of the pause — practical ways to get your relational lens back when panic takes over

- Why navigating conflict well can actually build more trust than avoiding it altogether

Let’s hit the path!

In this first full episode of the LR podcast, Chris and Brad start to dig into the question many leaders will be wondering: What does it actually mean to lead relationally?

After years of leadership courses, books, and seminars, the guys found themselves frustrated and unconfident when the theories didn’t translate into real-life success. The models were solid. The advice was helpful. But when it came to leading actual humans—with different personalities, emotions, and perspectives—something was lacking.

What they discovered is simple but challenging: you can’t lead relationally if you’re trying to grow alone.

They unpack the turning point in their own journeys—realizing that knowledge isn’t enough. Leadership growth requires conversation, vulnerability, and someone outside the chaos of your workplace who can challenge you safely. Enter “Dave.” Not a guru. Not a boss. Just a trusted, wise voice who asks the uncomfortable questions, calls them up to be better, and helps them examine their own hearts before trying to “fix” everyone else.

In this conversation, they explore:

• Why leadership information without relational growth falls flat

• The danger of trying to improve in isolation

• How unresolved frustration leaks onto your team (or your family)

• What it means to have a “Dave” in your life—and how to find one

• Why every leader eventually needs to become a Dave for someone else

This episode is both practical and deeply personal—a reminder that relational leadership doesn’t start with techniques. It starts with doing the inner work in trusted community.

If you want to lead people well, don’t just listen to podcasts about leadership. Find your Dave. Start the conversation. And don’t try to do it alone.

Welcome to the Lead Relationally podcast, where Chris and Brad invite you into an ongoing conversation about a better way to approach leadership.

Although they are seasoned leaders, they prefer to consider themselves students, rather than experts. They've “seen a thing or two”, though, and they’ve become convinced that many traditional leadership models don’t go far enough. There has to be a better, fuller, more human way to lead.

This podcast explores what it means to lead yourself and others well—whether you’re managing a team or simply working within one. Brad and Chris dive into the real dynamics of leadership: team friction, communication challenges, self-doubt, isolation, and the tension between getting results and valuing people. They challenge the idea that leadership has to be lonely and instead explore what it looks like to lead relationally—serving alongside others, engaging as whole people, and creating clarity without sacrificing humanity.

This isn’t about being everyone’s friend. It’s about learning to relate well, communicate effectively, and build environments where people feel seen, valued, and understood—while still accomplishing meaningful goals.

From hiring and firing to handling conflict and confronting tough conversations, they’ll unpack how a relational approach can transform the way we lead.

If you’ve ever wrestled with questions like “Am I doing this right?” or “Is there a better way to lead?”—this conversation is for you.

Join them on the journey as they explore what it means to lead relationally—and discover how leadership can be both effective and deeply human.

See you on the path!